things I have learned

[solipsistnation]

One of the things I was told by the counsellor I was seeing a couple of years ago was that people don't care why you do things, just that you either do them or don't do them, depending.

This has been a really helpful thing to know. I've used this knowledge most often when being scolded for things. The first and most important thing, if you've been doing something and are being told or asked not to, is to say, "I won't do it again." Explaining why can come later, assuming you're asked. It's okay to say, "do you want to know why?" Starting off with "...but I'm only doing it because..." and launching into an explanation doesn't help. Somebody has asked you to do something or not do something, and either you do it or you don't. Everything else is secondary to that.

This sounded really callous to me when she explained it-- "But what if you have a good reason?" Well, sure, you have a good reason. It gets blurry. You say, "Look, can I explain it?" Then you're talking about things, and a discussion can happen. But if it's something that somebody feels strongly about, you say, "Okay, I'll try and do better," and do so.

This tactic has served me well, and I don't think people would say that I've exactly caved in to gross manipulation, or suppressed my personality beneath the wishes of other people or whatever. It's just been a good, workable way to handle lots of situations. Like most of these sorts of interpersonal behaviors, of course, it's up for interpretation and must be adjusted to each situation. It's a good start, though, especially with people you want to be on good terms with, like friends or co-workers.

"Can you please not do that? That bugs me."

"Okay."

It's not so tough. It's extra-important when people are distressed for some reason. Are they freaking out? Do you think it's weird that they are? Don't tell them that-- that never works. Then you're telling somebody how they should be feeling, or that they're wrong for feeling what they're feeling. That's the worst thing you can do. That'll piss ME off, and I'm pretty laid-back about a lot of things.

I should probably say something like, "Your milage may vary," or something to imply that things work differently for different people, and probably they do, but, as rules of thumb, these are good places to start.

I wish I'd been online more today. I missed a bunch of stuff that I might have been able to help with.

Note that it's midnight, and I've been here since 9:30am. I feel like crap, I've missed an evening I was totally looking forward to, and I came back to find that I'd missed a lot of things I wish I'd been more available for. I'll help people sort things out if they want, but not until I've rested. I don't know if I can help, anyway.

Time to go home and go to sleep.

Comments

[zonereyrie.livejournal.com]

Sorry you had a rough day - I know what those long days can be like.

I saw the LJ piece of what happened today and wished I could do something, but I figured I could quite possibly just make things worse since both sides seemed upset and emotional.

[z-gryphon.livejournal.com]

er... wow. and I missed it entirely, because by the time I noticed the thread it was huge and I didn't have time to read it before leaving on my rush trip to Bangor, and by the time I got back from that it was gone.

somebody want to summarize in email?

[quaintance.livejournal.com]

Hey-

I've got no idea what triggered this post from your end (I tried scanning around for ideas, but none leaped out...), but it resonated with stuff I was thinking about on my way home this evening. I think your advice is quite sound. I'll probably be applying versions of it to both my unruly 4th period class and to a co-worker. Neither seem to be able to take "no" as my final answer.

So, thanks. You helped me. :)

fine, I can do that.

[palegreyminion.livejournal.com]

Please don't call me callous, untrustworthy and uncaring and then scream profanities at me when I take exception to it. That bugs me. Especially after having been lectured all day about considering other people's feelings.

Re: fine, I can do that.

[awfief.livejournal.com]

wow. I had been wanting to reply to the incident in question, but didn't know what to say. I don't really have sides on this issue, I noted the request.

I really agree with solipsistnation>, though -- if someone says, "it bothers me when you do foo" you have 1 decision to make -- either you continue to do foo, or try to stop doing foo. Whether or not you have reasons you do foo is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT. You have been made aware that your actions cause someone distress. You can choose to be sorry or not at the pain you have caused.

(and I don't mean you as in you specifically, because many many people did things.)

I'm not going to say that you haven't considered other people's feelings. And I will agree that some people's actions make is seem reasonable to do what we all have done ('cause I do it to). That, however, is not the issue.

The issue is that we do something that hurts someone. If you continue to do those things which you know hurt someone, then you are intentionally hurting them. I have made a mental note to not do those things, because I don't want to hurt this someone.

Are those actions justifiable? reasonable even? perhaps. but that's not the issue.

I know I'm repeating myself, but:

If I say "please don't dis the president, it hurts me" -- that has no bearing on whether or not the president deserves to be dissed. That's me telling you that something makes me feel bad, and asking you to stop it. Saying, "but the president's a jerk!" is not on topic.

Re: fine, I can do that.

[solipsistnation.livejournal.com]

I think you summed that up better than I did. 8)

Re: fine, I can do that.

[kadath.livejournal.com]

But (and I am *not* saying this is the case here), sometimes when people say "it bothers me when you do foo" they are being completely unreasonable or manipulative. Like Mute's Sensitive Coworker, for example.

This shouldn't be the case inside a friend-type relationship, but it happens all the time in places like work and school.

Re: fine, I can do that.

[awfief.livejournal.com]

I am SO extremely glad you brought that example up.

Because it illustrates my point. Yea though the Sensitive Coworker is completely unreasonable, and EVERYONE agrees on this, when she said, "it bothers me when you do foo" the following happened:

mute did everything he could so that he could do foo *without* bothering her.

He didn't say, "look, your demand is completely unreasonable." He said, "look, you're my co-worker, and I don't want you to be bothered. How's this? Oh, still bothered? How about this?"

He bent over backwards so as not to cause his co-worker distress. That her distress was completely unrealistic had NOTHING to do with the facts: he attempted to stop her distress.

Re: fine, I can do that.

[solipsistnation.livejournal.com]

...and, in the end, I got what I wanted, too.

Since the office situation is SO intolerable for her, she's been working across campus in a spare office in another building. She's just borrowing the office, so I suspect she'll be back eventually once that position is filled (I think it's on WPI's HR web site-- http://www.wpi.edu/+HR -- but you may not want it. really.), but at least for now, I've done everything I can, and if it isn't enough, then it's no longer my problem.

Re: fine, I can do that.

[z-gryphon.livejournal.com]

I wanna be the campus police dispatcher! 1-adam-12, 1-adam-12, no want, no warrant - Lincoln Ida X-Ray one two seven.

Re: fine, I can do that.

[palegreyminion.livejournal.com]

I've been the campus police dispatcher. It was a good job for getting some embroidery done, or catching up on my reading or whatever. The night shift, especially.

Re: fine, I can do that.

[kadath.livejournal.com]

I don't remember the exact steps he took, but the progression went something like "turn down volume, wear headphones, wear better headphones, move to new cube," right? Sometime around "wear better headphones," my response would have been "Okay, you need to start trying to meet me halfway." There's a difference between being sensitive and being manipulative. The *only* reason I would continue to accomodate a coworker who behaved that way would be to keep peace in the office, not because I gave a rat's patootie if I were bothering her anymore. It was nice of mute to move office space, but I don't think it was in any way his obligation to do so.

So I guess my question is, when does a request like that shade over from genuine distress to overblown sensitivity or to cynical or neurotic manipulativeness?

[lyadann.livejournal.com]

::hugshugs:: I hope things are better today than they were yesterday. We'll reschedule. Monday, if that works for you?

[audiogeek.livejournal.com]

CNN Headline news...

For the week of September 9th, 2003, Congress is going to reorder the days of the week. Unfortunately, by the time they decide if Monday should come before or after Wednesday, it will be October, so feel free to decide the order for yourself.

a lesson to be learned

[gizmoek.livejournal.com]

"Can you please not do that? That bugs me."

Ok, now if that is all that she said in the post, it would have been a completely different situation, but there was a lot more and that's why there was such a big reaction. I don't know about other people, but I felt attacked by that post. If it was a rant, I probably would have just blown it off and have forgotten about it, but she was asking a favor. If you're going to ask a favor of someone, don't attack them and guilt them into doing it, it'll just make things worse. Also, when I get attacked, I feel that I need to defend myself, it's human nature. I didn't mean to insult her or to make her angry with what I posted, I just wanted her to know that her post also upset me. What has been said cannot be undone, but it can be a lesson for the future (on both ends) on how to handle situations.